This is interesting. Along your comment about distance, I wonder if it's because it's easier to avoid information about their personal life when they aren't in headlines anymore, but dusty biographies. I'm reminded of Mikhail Bakhtin's brilliant essay "Epic and Novel." Here's a section of Wikipedia's summary:
"The epic ... is a ‘high-distance genre’. That is, its form and structure situate it in a distant past that assumes a finished quality, meaning it cannot be re-evaluated, re-thought or changed by us. Bakhtin compares the novel to clay, a material which can be remodeled, and the epic to marble, which cannot. The epic past is one that is irretrievable and idealized: it is valorized in a way that makes it appear hierarchically superior to the present. The epic form is a ‘walled’ one, meaning it builds boundaries which block it off from the present."
so well-articulated and a conversation that needs to be had regardless of how uncomfortable it makes people. thank you for writing, i hope this piece reaches audiences that need to hear this.
Such an interesting take on a topic that’s been of interest to me for a long time, especially since we talked about Post-Structuralism, The Death of an Author and separating the art from the artist in my literature class.
I especially loved “are we truly being objective, or are we just more comfortable because the controversy feels distant and ‘over’?”. Incredible!
i guess the more we talk about it, the more aware we get of how that dichotomy works in the first place. appreciate you engaging with this so thoughtfully. 🫶🏻🫶🏻
I think part of why we forget or pretend we don't remember some of the more problematic ideas of writers after they’re gone is because we turn them into myths. Their work becomes legend, and we start to remember the symbol more than the full, flawed human. And then there’s the historical context also. We often use it as a kind of shield, saying “it was a different time,” which can be true, but also ends up softening or excusing things we wouldn’t tolerate today. It’s such a delicate line to walk between honoring legacy and being honest about it. Loved how you question these things! I think today we can be open enough to hold both truths. Yes, they were masters of their art. And yes, some of their ideas are unacceptable.
it’s true, we do mythologize people, especially artists, like we need their brilliance to be untouched in order for it to stay meaningful. and yeah, the “different time” argument, it’s complicated. sometimes it helps contextualize, but other times it feels like an easy way out. i think what you said about holding both truths is powerful. we don’t have to throw everything away, but we shouldn’t ignore the parts that make us uncomfortable either.
Oh my god this is amazing, I've not read any of Lovecraft's work though, but I I've seen Lovecraft country and read the series is based off his work. This series shun racism and the effect it has on blacks, but reading here now has left me confused. Coz how would a racist man's work be influenced by a series meant to stand against racism. This is quite disheartening.
OH ABOUT THAT, in other words, the series is basically saying: “we know you were racist, but we’re going to take your fictional world and use it to fight against the very ideology you stood for.”
loved this. i think it is a very original and interesting piece and the way you choose your words is incredible. i had personally not really thought about this topic before, and it opened my eyes. i personally believe that we are often more lenient with authors of the past because we are unable to perceive 100% the gravity of their actions/statements given the temporal distance that separates us. and yet many of the topics on which these authors have expressed controversial opinions, such as racism, are still a very serious problem in our society. it is in indifference that discrimination is rooted; we should never justify it regardless of the historical period, but rather make the problematic figures of the past a starting point for improvement.
thank you so much for reading and responding to my piece so thoughtfully. it means a lot that you found a new perspective through it, especially since i wrote it from a very personal and reflective place. i completely agree with what you said about how we often “excuse” figures from the past because of the time gap, even though the issues they touched, or ignored, like racism, are still painfully present today. your words about discrimination growing from indifference really hit home. i hope we can keep being critical and never stop learning from history. thank you again. it truly means a lot to me.🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
Oh totally. I've been thinking about this especially with Sylvia Plath lately because she is so revered among "thought daughters" and everyday feminists alike, but the racism in her work is absolutely abhorrent. Not little biases here and there that could maybe (maybe) be attributed to the times* but overbearing racist remarks. Brilliant essay <3
*I don't really get this. Saying someone's bigotry is a product of their times is interesting to me because for every white/straight/cis person being terrible, there were large communities on the receiving end of said bigotry who knew it was harmful. It seems like another way we give people in positions of power a pass.
yes, exactly. the “product of their time” excuse often feels like a shield that protects privilege rather than challenges it. people forget that those harmful ideas weren’t just floating in the air. they were actively hurting real people who absolutely knew it was wrong. it’s powerful that you brought up sylvia plath in this context too, because it shows how we can still value the emotional resonance in someone’s work while not ignoring the damage in their words. thank you so much for reading my piece, your thoughts really stayed with me.
Then again, I'm re-reading Harry Potter right now because it brings me comfort of childhood despite knowing and disagreeing with JK Rowling. Glass houses.
I ask myself this question all the time especially with JK Rowling being such a prevalent figure for our generation. I think a HUGE reason we hold ourselves more accountable for her and Colleen Hoover is because of the separating the art from the artist viewpoint. Since we live in the same time period as these two, we see the authors as people and members of our society, where as for HP Lovecraft and Roald Dahl (for me, anyways), we've never seen them as a person, just a name on a page. For JKR and CH, we can see how the person lead to the art, while for HPL and RD, all we see is the art.
i really felt what you said, especially that part about how living in the same time as someone changes the way we hold them accountable. like, we’re not just reacting to a body of work frozen in time, we’re reacting to someone who’s still actively shaping culture and still has a voice. it makes it way harder to separate the art, because the artist is right there, tweeting or trending or causing harm in real-time.
and at the same time, we can’t let the passing of time soften or erase the harm caused by writers from the past. just because we didn’t witness their actions firsthand doesn’t mean we should overlook them. it’s still important to hold space for the full picture, to honor the art while also being honest about the impact.
thank you so much for reading my piece and taking the time to reflect on it this deeply, it honestly means a lot.🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
Ooohhh this is controversial I love it. I personally do not believe that we should have abandon problematic authors simply because I think historical context is how we pave away forward. by identifying that this person was a thought leader in some shape or form while also being extremely problematic gives us the ability to look back and say "this was wrong let's not be like them" while also absorbing and even enjoying the art they produced. I may have to come back with a second comment this was an amazing piece I'll be noodling over it all day.
I really like this analysis! It brought up many good points about legendary authors that have a past swept under the rug. I think this also relates to other discussions, such as the ones about Christopher Columbus.
So interesting and so true. Love how you summed it up in the last two paragraphs. Thank you for sharing!!
thank you so much for being here!🫶🏻
This is interesting. Along your comment about distance, I wonder if it's because it's easier to avoid information about their personal life when they aren't in headlines anymore, but dusty biographies. I'm reminded of Mikhail Bakhtin's brilliant essay "Epic and Novel." Here's a section of Wikipedia's summary:
"The epic ... is a ‘high-distance genre’. That is, its form and structure situate it in a distant past that assumes a finished quality, meaning it cannot be re-evaluated, re-thought or changed by us. Bakhtin compares the novel to clay, a material which can be remodeled, and the epic to marble, which cannot. The epic past is one that is irretrievable and idealized: it is valorized in a way that makes it appear hierarchically superior to the present. The epic form is a ‘walled’ one, meaning it builds boundaries which block it off from the present."
But anyways :-)
thanks for bringing bakhtin into this, it adds a rich layer to the conversation!
so well-articulated and a conversation that needs to be had regardless of how uncomfortable it makes people. thank you for writing, i hope this piece reaches audiences that need to hear this.
thank you so much sofi☹️🫶🏻🫶🏻
Such an interesting take on a topic that’s been of interest to me for a long time, especially since we talked about Post-Structuralism, The Death of an Author and separating the art from the artist in my literature class.
I especially loved “are we truly being objective, or are we just more comfortable because the controversy feels distant and ‘over’?”. Incredible!
thank you so much i appreciate it☹️💗
This is so true! It’s so interesting how we can excuse one and not the other. It’s a strange dichotomy indeed
i guess the more we talk about it, the more aware we get of how that dichotomy works in the first place. appreciate you engaging with this so thoughtfully. 🫶🏻🫶🏻
I think part of why we forget or pretend we don't remember some of the more problematic ideas of writers after they’re gone is because we turn them into myths. Their work becomes legend, and we start to remember the symbol more than the full, flawed human. And then there’s the historical context also. We often use it as a kind of shield, saying “it was a different time,” which can be true, but also ends up softening or excusing things we wouldn’t tolerate today. It’s such a delicate line to walk between honoring legacy and being honest about it. Loved how you question these things! I think today we can be open enough to hold both truths. Yes, they were masters of their art. And yes, some of their ideas are unacceptable.
it’s true, we do mythologize people, especially artists, like we need their brilliance to be untouched in order for it to stay meaningful. and yeah, the “different time” argument, it’s complicated. sometimes it helps contextualize, but other times it feels like an easy way out. i think what you said about holding both truths is powerful. we don’t have to throw everything away, but we shouldn’t ignore the parts that make us uncomfortable either.
thanks so much for reading my post.🫶🏻🫶🏻
Oh my god this is amazing, I've not read any of Lovecraft's work though, but I I've seen Lovecraft country and read the series is based off his work. This series shun racism and the effect it has on blacks, but reading here now has left me confused. Coz how would a racist man's work be influenced by a series meant to stand against racism. This is quite disheartening.
OH ABOUT THAT, in other words, the series is basically saying: “we know you were racist, but we’re going to take your fictional world and use it to fight against the very ideology you stood for.”
Oh I see, thanks for the insight setaria😂❤️
loved this. i think it is a very original and interesting piece and the way you choose your words is incredible. i had personally not really thought about this topic before, and it opened my eyes. i personally believe that we are often more lenient with authors of the past because we are unable to perceive 100% the gravity of their actions/statements given the temporal distance that separates us. and yet many of the topics on which these authors have expressed controversial opinions, such as racism, are still a very serious problem in our society. it is in indifference that discrimination is rooted; we should never justify it regardless of the historical period, but rather make the problematic figures of the past a starting point for improvement.
thank you so much for reading and responding to my piece so thoughtfully. it means a lot that you found a new perspective through it, especially since i wrote it from a very personal and reflective place. i completely agree with what you said about how we often “excuse” figures from the past because of the time gap, even though the issues they touched, or ignored, like racism, are still painfully present today. your words about discrimination growing from indifference really hit home. i hope we can keep being critical and never stop learning from history. thank you again. it truly means a lot to me.🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
this was so good. i made a deep reflection about that after reading it todayy. it's such an eye opener!
i’m really glad it resonated with you, thank you so much for reading my piece, it means a lot🫶🏻
this makes me want to ask better, more critical questions !!!
that’s where real reflection begins. i’m so glad it sparked that in you🫶🏻🫶🏻
Oh totally. I've been thinking about this especially with Sylvia Plath lately because she is so revered among "thought daughters" and everyday feminists alike, but the racism in her work is absolutely abhorrent. Not little biases here and there that could maybe (maybe) be attributed to the times* but overbearing racist remarks. Brilliant essay <3
*I don't really get this. Saying someone's bigotry is a product of their times is interesting to me because for every white/straight/cis person being terrible, there were large communities on the receiving end of said bigotry who knew it was harmful. It seems like another way we give people in positions of power a pass.
yes, exactly. the “product of their time” excuse often feels like a shield that protects privilege rather than challenges it. people forget that those harmful ideas weren’t just floating in the air. they were actively hurting real people who absolutely knew it was wrong. it’s powerful that you brought up sylvia plath in this context too, because it shows how we can still value the emotional resonance in someone’s work while not ignoring the damage in their words. thank you so much for reading my piece, your thoughts really stayed with me.
Then again, I'm re-reading Harry Potter right now because it brings me comfort of childhood despite knowing and disagreeing with JK Rowling. Glass houses.
I ask myself this question all the time especially with JK Rowling being such a prevalent figure for our generation. I think a HUGE reason we hold ourselves more accountable for her and Colleen Hoover is because of the separating the art from the artist viewpoint. Since we live in the same time period as these two, we see the authors as people and members of our society, where as for HP Lovecraft and Roald Dahl (for me, anyways), we've never seen them as a person, just a name on a page. For JKR and CH, we can see how the person lead to the art, while for HPL and RD, all we see is the art.
i really felt what you said, especially that part about how living in the same time as someone changes the way we hold them accountable. like, we’re not just reacting to a body of work frozen in time, we’re reacting to someone who’s still actively shaping culture and still has a voice. it makes it way harder to separate the art, because the artist is right there, tweeting or trending or causing harm in real-time.
and at the same time, we can’t let the passing of time soften or erase the harm caused by writers from the past. just because we didn’t witness their actions firsthand doesn’t mean we should overlook them. it’s still important to hold space for the full picture, to honor the art while also being honest about the impact.
thank you so much for reading my piece and taking the time to reflect on it this deeply, it honestly means a lot.🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
So many great points.
thankyouu🫶🏻
Ooohhh this is controversial I love it. I personally do not believe that we should have abandon problematic authors simply because I think historical context is how we pave away forward. by identifying that this person was a thought leader in some shape or form while also being extremely problematic gives us the ability to look back and say "this was wrong let's not be like them" while also absorbing and even enjoying the art they produced. I may have to come back with a second comment this was an amazing piece I'll be noodling over it all day.
that's a good opinion, keke!!! LOVE THAT. thank you for sharing your thoughts🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻🫶🏻
I really like this analysis! It brought up many good points about legendary authors that have a past swept under the rug. I think this also relates to other discussions, such as the ones about Christopher Columbus.
WELLLLLL, a lot of people aren’t ready for a conversation about him
Roald Dahl was literally antisemitic and racist but I think a lot aren't ready for that conversation
yupp roald dahl’s antisemitic remarks and racist views are well-documented and can’t be ignored when discussing his legacy lol